10K Training Group, 8K's are welcome too

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First Race of Year. (Read 481 times)

    Goal is 10K at the Ottawa Race Weekend at the end of May, but ran a nice local 5K yesterday in 17:55. Now I just need to do that twice to go 35: xx

    2013 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away - FAIL.

    2014 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away.

      My goal is sub-35 at the Beach to Beacon in August.  Did a 3-miler in 16:58 yesterday, so I am in pretty good shape right now.  I'll try to remember to post my progress in this forum...

      Goals for 2013: sub 18 5K; stay healthy

        Alright, nice job on the 5K's guys.  I wish I could help with your 10K plans but I am a 10K neophyte.  Glad to see this group get some action.   I'm gonna need some help from you fast guys to hit my goal. 

         

        My goal race is on 5/31 - Marin Memorial Day Races (10K) in sub-38. 

        I ran a 10K yesterday just to see what would happen off of purely endurance-type marathon training (I'm running Boston on Monday).  I ran a 4 second PR (38:20) but was kinda disappointed to not get a sub-38 time which I thought I would have breezed to.

        Immediately after Boston I want to switch over to some specialized training to help me get that sub-38 on 5/31.  Any suggestions on workouts?  I think I need to develop just a bit of speed to get that sub-38.  I know it's not a huge amount of time especially given a recovery week or two from Boston.

        Keep in mind I believe I have some very good endurance/strength built up.  Key workouts have been long intervals at 1/2marathon pace with short recovery jogs. Like  6-8X1600 @ 6:35 each interval.  I did a 6X3200 at 12:10 each with 200 jog recovery as my last marathon workout.   

          Before I read the rest of your post, I was going to suggest tempo work.  To me those workouts are more 5-10K stuff than marathon, but I've never raced a marathon. I'm just saying that I don't bother with repeat miles for a  10K or ½ marathon, I'd just 3 times a week run 5-10k threshold kind of runs.... sort of just short of ½ marathon effort, but well short of race day pace.

           

          Keep your long run in the 25-30km range until the last week before the 10K, the real window to make a difference in that race is the first three weeks of May. Throw in some strides after your long run, maybe some good plyometric workouts after those tempo runs (jumping up stairs is my favorite), and I think you'll be there. I'm guessing that you didn't run that 10K Sunday all out with Boston coming up, I'm positive you've got a 10K well under 38 in you.

          2013 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away - FAIL.

          2014 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away.

            Thanks for the input, Viitch.  I'll research the plyo's and see if they will fit in with my plan (which I don't have yet!).  Actually, I had thought of doing 5-10K threshold runs to get there but I'm wondering if I would or could benefit from much shorter, much faster work.  I think the payoff could be big, as would be the risk of injury.

             

            Nah, I wish I could say that I 'held back some' on that race but I honestly don't think I did.  I think I could have gone a little faster if there had been some people around me to chase but the guy who finished in front of me was 40 ahead - I couldn't see him at all in the last part of the race. 

              For the plyometric workouts, here's some of my favorites:

               

              Stairs:

              1. Find a nice set of stairs. Long and wide without a landing is best. I prefer long before wide, especially if there's a railing.
              2. Run up the stairs.
              3. Hop up the stairs on both feet
              4. Hop up the stairs on one foot. Repeat with the other foot.
              5. Run up the stairs skipping steps.
              6. Hop up the stairs with both feet skipping steps. (Most  All of the guys I train with stop here)
              7. Hop up the stairs on one foot skipping steps, repeat with the other foot.

              The goal on this one is to minimize your dwell time on the step.

               

              Crash Mat: (Big Blue)

               

              1. Run in place on a crash mat for 45 seconds. Sprint 50 meters all out without breaking stride at the end of your running in place.

              This one hurts. Full stop.

              2013 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away - FAIL.

              2014 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away.

                I'll probably give some of that work a shot.  Maybe try a few of the excercises and see how my body responds before going full tilt.

                On a different note - your 800m and 1500m times are SIGNIFICANTLY faster than mine (2:15 & 4:27 vs 2:30 & 5:04).  And let me tell you that the 1500m time is NOT soft - I've worked at it some, the 800 might be just a bit soft but not much.  And yet, though you are much faster than me, I see in your calendar that you run a lot of miles at 8:30 pace!  Even the intervals I looked at are not super-fast. 

                I have to say that this philosophy of not running superhero workouts and easy, easy paces is probably the best way to go if you want to go for longevity.   It's kind of the way I train as well and maybe the reason I posted here in the first place.

                To get ready for this 10K at the end of May I could continue what I'm doing and maybe turn in a sub-38 just off of the rest after the marathon and the very good competition at this race.  Or I could go for it and run the superhero workouts and maybe try some new training methods (plyo's?) to possibly have a break-through race.  The fact that I'll be one day shy of 49 years old on 10K raceday means I probably should not jeopardize all the progress I've made the past 3 years as a breakdown will probably take a long time to recover from.  It's a tough call and prudence probably means I should just keep doing what has been successfull for me up to now.  Thoughts?

                  Two things about the slower runs. I'm not sure what 8:30 pace is, I can walk at 8:30 per km.

                   

                  First, yea, I honestly think that easy running should be easy. Not every run that isn't a workout is like that, but there's no need to kill yourself trying to hit a pace on an easy day.

                  Second, a lot of the really slow runs, the ones approaching 6 min / km, I'm running morning PT - military. Gotta go at a pace the group can go at. Any training group can do that for you though.

                   

                  Next, I can, have, and do hammer workouts. My training leading up to my best 2 5K races in May 08, I had workouts like this:

                   

                  9 May 08

                  200m 0:33

                  600m 1:53

                  800m 2:34

                  1km 3:08

                  200m 0:30

                  200m 0:29

                   

                   

                  And This was 2 days before that one, on 7 May - 6x 400 on 2 min start rule:

                   

                  400m in 72, 71, 71, 71, 71. 72 

                   

                   

                  One week after the second of these 5K races, I twisted my leg playing soccer, turned out that I sprained my adductor tendon. That didn't really heal properly for almost a year. Shortly after getting that right, I sprained my ankle playing soccer. Right now, I'm not doing a whole lot because of an achilles flare up in that same ankle I sprained.

                   

                  I'm not really sure how hard I'm going to go when I do get right again. Look at the racing I've done while fighting these injuries.

                   

                  In prep for the half marathons I ran in september the last two years, I did all threshold training and virtually no interval training at all. My splits in the half this past september were 17:44 through 5K and 36:33 through 10K. Almost anyone would have said that I was undertrained for the half based on mileage. I kind of figure if I can do that, how much extra am I going to get from doing a bunch of 70 second 400's?

                  2013 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away - FAIL.

                  2014 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away.

                    Two things about the slower runs. I'm not sure what 8:30 pace is, I can walk at 8:30 per km.

                     

                    First, yea, I honestly think that easy running should be easy. Not every run that isn't a workout is like that, but there's no need to kill yourself trying to hit a pace on an easy day.

                    Second, a lot of the really slow runs, the ones approaching 6 min / km, I'm running morning PT - military. Gotta go at a pace the group can go at. Any training group can do that for you though.

                     

                    Next, I can, have, and do hammer workouts. My training leading up to my best 2 5K races in May 08, I had workouts like this:

                     

                    9 May 08

                    200m 0:33

                    600m 1:53

                    800m 2:34

                    1km 3:08

                    200m 0:30

                    200m 0:29

                     

                     

                    And This was 2 days before that one, on 7 May - 6x 400 on 2 min start rule:

                     

                    400m in 72, 71, 71, 71, 71. 72 

                     

                     

                    One week after the second of these 5K races, I twisted my leg playing soccer, turned out that I sprained my adductor tendon. That didn't really heal properly for almost a year. Shortly after getting that right, I sprained my ankle playing soccer. Right now, I'm not doing a whole lot because of an achilles flare up in that same ankle I sprained.

                     

                    I'm not really sure how hard I'm going to go when I do get right again. Look at the racing I've done while fighting these injuries.

                     

                    In prep for the half marathons I ran in september the last two years, I did all threshold training and virtually no interval training at all. My splits in the half this past september were 17:44 through 5K and 36:33 through 10K. Almost anyone would have said that I was undertrained for the half based on mileage. I kind of figure if I can do that, how much extra am I going to get from doing a bunch of 70 second 400's?

                     

                    8:30 pace --> 8:30/mile!  Apologize for crazy Americans who refuse to go metric!  Hope you're ankle/achilles situation is improving.

                    Those workouts would be not doable for me but I get your point - you can and do hammer once in a while.  My philosophy would be (especially as an older runner) pretty much not to ever hammer except in races.  Main goal:  Keep the training ball rolling and avoid setbacks at all costs.  I don't have much time before my times start to drop no matter what I do.

                     

                    I agree that you won't get anything from blasting 400's in prep for a 1/2 (at least that's what seems to be true from my experience).  I've really only EVER done threshold training when I want to run fast (1600's, 3200's at 1/2 marathon pace). So I don't think I've ever done any true speedwork.

                     

                    So now Boston is done and my legs are recovered and I'm feeling good.  I did a session of your suggested plyo's (hopping up stairs one-legged etc - not too bad), I also jumped in my club's relay race this past Saturday.  It was a 3-man relay of 36X200m.  So each person did 12 200's.  I was paired with two guys similar in ability to myself and all three of us ran ~35seconds per 200.  So I ended up with 12X200 at ~35sec with about 70sec recovery in between.  Never mind the training effect, this was a very FUN workout!  I loved it.  I did have some soreness afterwards (2 days later) where my hamstrings connect up into my butt (both sides equally sore) and also the two 'cords' that run behind the knees (both sides equally sore).  They're fine now but I gotta believe that workout stressed some places that don't normally get stressed (I'm never sore in those spots, even after the marathon).  I've got another easy day scheduled today and then I'll try and do a shorter (~3miles) tempo run tomorrow sandwiched on each side by 2 or 3 miles of easy running.  May31st is coming!

                     

                      You guys have blazing speed, great running!

                      I also find that the longer strides and harder pace of intervals stress different places- same with hills.

                       

                      I skipped my 10k race (Sporting Life, Toronto) because I have not been training. My job ends May 31st. and I do not qualify for unemployment insurance so have been concentrating on finding a new career.

                      PBs since age 60:  5k- 24:36, 10k - 47:17. Half Marathon- 1:42:41.

                                                          10 miles (unofficial) 1:16:44.

                       

                        You guys have blazing speed, great running!

                        I also find that the longer strides and harder pace of intervals stress different places- same with hills.

                         

                        I skipped my 10k race (Sporting Life, Toronto) because I have not been training. My job ends May 31st. and I do not qualify for unemployment insurance so have been concentrating on finding a new career.

                         

                        Ha!  It's the way of the world - any one who runs faster than ME has blazing speed!  Me?  Not so much!  

                         

                        To keep with the tone of your post, I think I've progressed some as far as being sore after the 200's.  I've done two sets since then and that soreness I felt after the first set has not come back.  Training effect?  I think so!

                         

                        Good luck to you in your job search and, hey, try to keep some fitness so you can bounce back quickly!


                        Marquess of Utopia

                          This page has some good workouts for sub 35 min 10K:

                          http://www.time-to-run.com/training/10k/sub35.htm

                           

                          I have had a lot of success building a huge base training for a fast marathon, tempo intervals: 3x2miles, 3x3miles. 10mile runs at MP (30-40 seconds slower per mile than 10K pace).

                          then focusing on 10K speed 3 weeks before the race.

                            This page has some good workouts for sub 35 min 10K:

                            http://www.time-to-run.com/training/10k/sub35.htm

                             

                            I have had a lot of success building a huge base training for a fast marathon, tempo intervals: 3x2miles, 3x3miles. 10mile runs at MP (30-40 seconds slower per mile than 10K pace).

                            then focusing on 10K speed 3 weeks before the race.

                             

                            Thanks for that site but I think it's a little too advanced for me.  They have a big jump from sub-40 to sub-35 - I'll be happy with a sub-38!

                            I think I've done something similar as you have (big base for a 'fast' marathon, then focusing on speed the last few weeks before the race).  I ran Boston on 4/19 in 2:58:59 and after a 2week recovery phase of just jogging I started in with some speed work.  My big race is 5/31.  Did a few tempos as well just to keep my hand in on distance/fast stuff but I didn't do any more cruise-type (6X1600;6X3200) intervals which were the bread-butter of my marathon training.  It's all over but the crying now - I'll just have to see how Memorial Day goes.

                             

                            BTW - Congratulations on that 31:13 10K.  That is getting seriously fast.  Your progression is amazing.  Keep up the good work.