Beginners and Beyond

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Best time for tune-up HM? (Read 80 times)


Ball of Fury

    Hey all!  DH and I are planning way ahead and are looking for a tune-up HM for our next FM, which is Nov. 2.  We will be following a Hanson plan (probably advanced), and they do not recommend many races during the program and do not have them built in.  However, we would like to run at least 1 HM to gauge our fitness and choose a goal pace.  So, my question is, how many weeks pre marathon do you feel is ideal for a HM?

    PRs:  5K 22:59, 10K 46:54,HM: 1:51:15

    Awood_Runner


    Smaller By The Day

      I'm still making sizable jumps in fitness.  So, I don't want to do my tuneup too far out, or it won't give me an accurate picture of my goal pace.  I've been kicking around the idea of running the Blueberry Stomp 15K, which was September 3rd last year.  I think it's Labor Day.  I suck with my holidays.

       

      If you're not too far from Plymouth, Indiana, they seem to do a pretty good job there.

      Improvements

      Weight 100 pounds lost

      5K 31:02 Sept. 2012 / 23:36 Sept. 2013 (Same Course)

      10K 48:59 April 2013

      HM 2:03:56 Nov. 2012 / 1:46:50 March 2013

      MARATHON 3:57:33 Nov. 2013

       

      St. Jude's Hero Profile

        I will be interested to hear the responses, as I have a HM scheduled 8 weeks before a full. I'm sure that is no problem for a lot of people, but I'm not sure how it will work out for me. I will still have some work to do to get into FM shape, and it will be a potential training interruption depending how I bounce back from it. I was told on a different thread that if the full is the real goal, just sub the HM for one of the LR's and make it a "tempo run with a bib". I am guessing the experts here will ask you how hard you want to run the HM, that will influence how much time before the full to allow. 

         

        Higdon marathon plans insert a HM at week 9 of the 18 week plan.

        Dave

        paulski66


        miscreant

          I think int depends on how experienced you are and how many miles/week you're running in training.

           

          If you're averaging (not peaking) 45 miles/week, I'd say about six weeks out or so. That should give you enough time to recover, get some additional quality training in, and get a solid two week taper. If you're running higher mileage, say 75+ miles/week, your recovery requirements are significantly reduced and I think you can race a training half 3-4 weeks out. Personally, I think two weeks out is too close if you're really racing the half.

           

          I ran Chicago last year, then the Indianapolis half 2 weeks later, then Monumental Full two weeks after that. But I did not race the Indy half all out, and even then I still wasn't fully recovered in time for the Monumental. If Monumental had been my goal race, I don't think I would have risked the Indy half.

           

           

          I'm happy, hope you're happy too...

          happylily


            I would say about 5 weeks. Maybe 4 if you recover quickly. No closer than that. I once did one one week before a marathon and it was an ugly idea. Big grin

            PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                    Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

            3 years, 13 marathons, 13 BQs     


            day after day sameness

              I find 3 weeks to be really good. First of all, you go into the HM peaking for a longer distance and will rock it easily. Secondly, that's usually right as the taper for the full starts so you're recovery is codified into the plan, and finally most plans have you running a 10 - 12 miler 3 weeks out, so it fits well.

              I've done my best to live the right way; I get up every morning and go to work each day...

                With every run you do, other than a goal race, you have to weigh risks and rewards.  What do I hope to gain from this activity? vs. What are the risks of this activity?  With any all out race, you can gain a new level of fitness.  More importantly, you can find out where your strengths and weaknesses lie so that you can tweak your training plan in the final month or so leading up to the race.  The risk, of course, in any all out race is that you can tweak something and have to take a little time off to recover.

                 

                Balancing those, I think a HM 8 weeks out is ideal.  If you do one any closer, there is no time to do any training based on the results of that race.  It takes about 2 weeks to recover from an all out HM and it takes about 2 weeks to taper for the marathon.  That's 4 weeks when you are not training at full capacity.  So, I think 8 weeks is perfect.  You can recover FULLY from the HM before you start training again, then you have 4 solid weeks where you can focus your training based on the results of the half marathon rather than just blindly following a canned plan followed by a 2 week taper from those hard workouts.  Plus, if you do tweak something during that HM, you have time to take a week or two off without negatively impacting your fitness.

                Short term goal: 17:59 5K

                Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

                Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

                happylily


                  So there you go, Ami. You have a choice of 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9 weeks. Whatever you do, don't go with 7. No one likes 7. Big grin

                   

                  EDITED to include 9.

                  PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                          Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                  3 years, 13 marathons, 13 BQs     

                    So there you go, Ami. You have a choice of 3, 4, 5, 6 or 8 weeks. Whatever you do, don't go with 7. No one likes 7. Big grin

                     

                    Don't forget the 9, from the Higdon plans.

                    Dave

                    Adam_McAllen


                    Beer-and-waffle Powered

                      I like the idea of 4-5 weeks out. Far enough away that you still have a few weeks of training between the half-marathon and the marathon. For me, if it was two months away I'd be thinking of it as "racing a half marathon and then racing a marathon in two months", as opposed to treating it as a tune-up.

                       

                      I think it depends on your mileage and recovery though. If you can't run a half-marathon hard on Sunday morning and then be back out running easy within a day or two and back to normal workouts later in the week then you need to put the race further away.

                      In the words of my late-coach : Just hang in there, relax... and at the end of a race anyone you see.....just pass them


                      Ball of Fury

                        So there you go, Ami. You have a choice of 3, 4, 5, 6, 8 and 9 weeks. Whatever you do, don't go with 7. No one likes 7. Big grin

                         

                        EDITED to include 9.

                        Yep....cleared it right up for me!!  Thanks for all the advice....we were leaning toward the Air Force HM in Dayton, which is 6 weeks out but will have to look closer and make a decision.

                        PRs:  5K 22:59, 10K 46:54,HM: 1:51:15

                        onemile


                          Hey AmiK. As you know, I'm doing Hansons Advanced and just did mine 4 weeks out.  I'm not sure if I'd recommend it or not.  I felt like I couldn't race as well as I wanted to. But I also haven't had a problem completing my workouts since the race (I was worried about that).  And I wanted to schedule for a weekend that I didn't have a LR.  I'm interested in seeing what you decide and how it works out.  I'm not sure if I would change it or not.

                          Zentastic


                          Chasing Rainbows

                            I think 3 weeks is ideal for determining what your goal pace should be for the marathon.  The hard part is controlling your pace during the HM, treating it as a tempo run instead of a race.  Easier said than done.

                            The obstacle is the path. - Zen proverb


                            Ball of Fury

                              Again, thanks for the opinions guys!  I would probably race the HM pretty full out, because I am just not good at holding back, so why set myself up for failure?  I recover pretty well, in that I can do easy runs the next couple days after a HM without a problem, but I don't recover so well that I could race it 3 weeks out.  I like LTH's idea of 8 weeks, because then you have time to make some training adjustments if needed, but I haven't found a doable HM at that time.  What do you guys think of 6 weeks?  Still time to recover and I could make a couple changes for the next 4 weeks if needed (I am pretty sure the Hanson taper is only 2 weeks).

                              PRs:  5K 22:59, 10K 46:54,HM: 1:51:15


                              Muddling through

                                I think 3 weeks is ideal for determining what your goal pace should be for the marathon.  The hard part is controlling your pace during the HM, treating it as a tempo run instead of a race.  Easier said than done.

                                How is it going to help you determine goal pace if you run it as a tempo run? All the calculators assume a race time entered is from an allout race for the numbers to be valid.

                                2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race

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