biketm what I am beginning to suspect is that you are a lot faster than you think and that your "MP" pace is really something much slower.

I think what you mean is that his true MP may be much faster. I've heard it said that if you can knock out 18-20 miles at MP, you might not have set your goal for MP fast enough. But Tim will have a better idea what he is capable of after he gets the first marathon out of the way (in which I have no doubt he will be smokin' fast). Then he can focus on an even better time in his target fall marathon.

Interesting topic on today's thread, so I can't resist on weighing in. I think the most important thing Tim said is that he hasn't felt like he has overtaxed his body. If he is keeping an eye on his resting heart rate in the morning and it isn't sending him any signals, I suspect his training is fine. Tim and I could be given identical training plans, and even if we were at the same fitness level to start, we would probably not finish at the same place. Everyone adapts to the stresses of training plans differently. That's what makes this whole process so interesting. Tim, if it's working stick with it, only one way to find out, that will be the start line, finish line, and all the miles in between. As far as people chastising you Tim, that is the beauty of putting what you do out there for the world to see. That is the great thing about posting in an open forum. Every time any of us hits that post button we take that risk that some will disagree with what we say. Healthy debate, without taking cheap shots, challenges us to critically think about what we do or say. After this critical analysis, if we are still happy with ourselves, we are that much better for making the examination and taking that risk to begin with. Craneium the philosopher

Twocat, Here's part of the response: There are of course zillions of studies showing the performance benefits of consuming carbohydrate during prolonged exercise. The literature on the benefits of intentionally under-fueling is more sparse. Bente Pedersen of Sweden has done some research on the cytokine interleukin-6 that suggests withholding carbohydrate in some workouts may be beneficial. http://daily-erg-workout.blogspot.com/2006/08/rowing-nutrition-train-low-compete.html I think the "zillions" was a nod to the whole sports supplement industry.

dg - Another AG win? Boy, soon people are gonna wanna race against you 'cause they'll know your a tuff nut to beat. Congratulations! No workout, but was up transcribing at 5:00 a.m. You'd think that since this interview is so important they'd put the recorder closer to their suspect, but noooooo. Geesh - I can hardly hear the guy. The rest of this week will be iffy with workouts. Have to get up at 3:00 a.m. tomorrow to catch a 6:00 a.m. flight to Long Beach w/three other folks for conference the rest of the week and weekend. Am glad I'm in recovery mode the rest of the week. Tammy and Holly will appreciate this - Got my documents all copies, stuffed in envelopes to mail, ready to take to court to file . . . and realized I forgot to put the court date on everything. Grrrrrr! A coupla words flew out of my mouth just as one of my bosses walked into the copy room. He started laughing at me and walked away real quick before I threw the stapler at him.

That Pil's ought to be 'bout half way right ?

No there's still quite a bit left, we haven't had half of it yet Seriously, it's been about 6 weeks and tastes pretty good now. I had to get it ready for serving a bit early (after 4 weeks) for a local tasting. Thanks for asking!

(instead of obsessively reading and re-reading every word of the 24 week marathon plans in the back ). Did a yoga session today on my 8th wedding anniversary. I can't believe we've only been married 8 years. We've packed a whole lot of living into these years. I'm very fortunate Bayside puts up with me.

very happy anniversary to you & Bayside!!!!!

Very very short on time right now....super busy at work. But I wanted to at least comment on one thing (or two)...my MP is not faster than 7:50 pace that I know for sure. (if I understood that right Twocat) Somewhere down the line maybe, but I doubt it with this 50 year old body (that feels great and much younger though) Maybe Ribs could comment also that 7:50 ish pace is my MP...he knows from coaching me last year, and I am basically using the same plan. Craneium, funny you mentioned resting HR's. Like I have said before, oddly I know, that my resting HR is always lowest in the late afternoon or night. Like last Friday night before Sat's 23 miler, my resting HR was 42 bpm watching TV at 9:00pm... Sat morning I get up and it's 63 bpm. My body is out of whack concerning this and my Doctor told me everything is fine and my biorhythms are just different than most people. That is why I don't like morning running, but love night time running. Kinda sucks for me though because most all races are in the mornings. I wonder sometimes since I run mostly at night, if that is why I am this way...prolly not I suppose. OK, back to work... Thanks everyone...you all rock Ya know TimBo