Did my speedworkout today. 8x400 with warm up and cool down. All intervals were exactly as predicted. All intervals were identical to the second except the last one where I went all out and took off 4 seconds from all the rest. Warm up and cool down felt easy. Some intervals felt slower than others, some faster but I was exact in my pacing. TO THE SECOND! My heart rate was as predicted. The time it took to drop to 75% of max BPM was also predictable. I have made myself into a predictable mess of running calculators. Damn straight I have! This workout is easy compared to trail running. Realization: speedwork is fun. Running hilly trails is the worst kind of fun ever. I am rusty though. Tomorrow is easy running. Thursday is tempo. This 10k training will be a breeze! HOORAY!

Hills are always gonna through your HR off. That's one reason why I struggle with HR training....The only flat areas around here are the tracks, and even some of those are suspect.

Awesome workouts and good running, Muse... Here's a workout I used to run with my old Boston club, the Cambridge Sports Union while getting ready for the racing season. This workout used to kill me, but also made me strong and fast. We'd warm up for 20 minutes or so jogging around the MIT track, then run one mile in 5:20, mile 2 in 6:30 (recovery), mile three in 5:10 and mile 4 in 6:30, then jog another 20 minutes for cooldown. This doesn't sound hard, but with the recoveries so quick you'd be dying during that mile three trying to recover, then have to jump right into a 5:10 mile. Those were on Thursdays, on Tuesdays we'd usually do 2 sets of ladders. 400 to 1600 and back. This was the Master's team that did this together and on the mile repeat workouts we'd each lead one lap to teach pacing. We finished 2nd in most of the Grand Prix races, no one could touch the Greater Lowell Road Runners back then with John Barbour leading them. I miss those days... I tried running with a HR monitor for awhile, but prefer RPE. Steve

Muse, if it helps, I've been getting more ravenous. And also, there's a reason why I haven't done any speed work.

. But then again, I'm just a naturally skinny dude.

I hate people like you. I get really hungry when my mileage goes up, and what sycks even more than that is that the hunger doesn't go away right away when my mileage goes back down. Coming off the marathon I've gained 6 pounds because my body still wants to eat the same amount of food while doing less exercise. And Muse, I am slow, too, especially compared to these speed demons. I see speed workouts posted mentioning 6 minute miles and such, and I'm just happy when I get down to 8 min miles. My normal workouts are 9-9:30/mile.

I have a method given to me by an Olympic cyclist, now coach that I'd be happy to share here to find your max HR. It basically takes 40 minutes of your time and you need to be rested when you do it.

Something along the lines of this? http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/determinezones.html

Wow I've missed out on this thread! Too much time in the 2000 mile forum. Where do I start replying... hmmmm I'll start with the ravenous part. Ravenous means I can put away about 2,500 cals spread over the day. That's several hundred calories above my maintenance level which is sad. Oh well. That was how I panned out yesterday. I woke up today, ready for breakfast. Yesterday I was so hungry all day I couldn't concentrate on anything except when I would eat again. It sucked. I ate full meals too. I also did a short 3 mile recovery jog. I have "that time" right now so I'm sure it doesn't help. I've also been running non-stop for about 14 days. I'm sure a day off would help me. Darn 2000 mile board. I've been on 3 different "types" of eating and they all get me to the same weight give or take 2-4 pounds. When I buckle down and do which ever "diet" I am adhering to I lose weight. When I don't my weight gradually creeps up. I'm sure shifting mileage from the mid 30 range to the high 40 range lately is responsible + having woman issues. My body is thrown for a loop for sure. Steve, I'd love to see the formulas you have. I am really "formulaic" with my running. Like on McMillan my 5k, 10k, and half-marathon are all as predicted, to the second. I also run my easy pace the way Daniels says and this equates to exactly 75% of my max heart rate as predicted by the heart rate formula I got on Polar's website. I think I'm just predictable. Scarey enough I also can predict 1/2 marathon PR's based on duration of quality training. Like I did 7 half-marathons last year and predictably PR'd after the first 3 of them. Now it's like a science. I guess when you run a lot of races you learn how your body adapts. My calculations (get my geek glasses out) basically say that for every month and a half of quality training I PR by 1:30 for each half-marathon and half that amount for a 10k and half of the latter amount for a 5k. I think I spend too much time worrying about running! I do most of my runs at a 9:15-9:40 pace though in heavy training I shift to the slower end. I used to run my daily runs as races and then realized that it sucked and was yuckie. An all out 400 meter repeat at the end of training (e.g. a day with 2 mile w/up and 7X400 with cool down jogs around the track) can be about 1:36 for me and that would probably put my heart rate to about my max heart rate. Yup. I don't know what that means but I've done that a bunch of times before. So there, I'm not fast.