Ultra Runners

123

Difference between ultra / trail and road ? (Read 689 times)


Black-Toe-Nailed

    Hey people,

     

    I want to start with ultras / trail in a year or two, once I have enough base and done some achievements in 'normal' road running that I wanted to do (almost done, actually: Sub 3.30 marathon, close-to 40 10k and a sub 1:30 half marathon).  

     

    I like to plan things with a good amount of time.

     

     My aim is not only to switch to ultras and trails but also to barefoot running (I'm already training this too, don't worry).

     

    What I am confused about are the differences between 'normal' road running and trails and ultras.

     

    For instance: I have the impression that runners do stop during ultras to eat and some times to get a checked by a doctor, unlike in road running were you try not to stop (I can manage a full 26 milers without refuelling). Is this correct ? Can you shed more light on that?

     

    I do know that the tradition in trail running is to keep track of the time of a run and not the mileage. What about that?

     

    The nutrition and cross training also seems to be quite different, as from what I heard ultra runners rely more on fat than on glycogen and many include full body workouts like cross-fit into their training schedules....

     

    And last question: Is there any good book about ultra and trail running?  I know Scott Jurek is going to release one soon (Eat & Run) that I have already pre-ordered so that I guess that it could be a good start.

     

    Any answer / suggestion will be greatly appreciated ♣ 

    --

    "If one can stick to the training throughout the many long years,
    then will power is no longer a problem. It's raining? That doesn't matter.
    I am tired? That's besides the point. It's simply that I just have to."

    Emil Zatopek

    DoppleBock


      Hey people,

       

      I want to start with ultras / trail in a year or two, once I have enough base and done some achievements in 'normal' road running that I wanted to do (almost done, actually: Sub 3.30 marathon, close-to 40 10k and a sub 1:30 half marathon).  

       

      I like to plan things with a good amount of time.

       

       My aim is not only to switch to ultras and trails but also to barefoot running (I'm already training this too, don't worry).

       

      What I am confused about are the differences between 'normal' road running and trails and ultras.

       

      For instance: I have the impression that runners do stop during ultras to eat and some times to get a checked by a doctor, unlike in road running were you try not to stop (I can manage a full 26 milers without refuelling). Is this correct ? Can you shed more light on that?  Depends - Road 50k-100k I would not stop - I would fuel on the run just like a marathon.  Road 24 hour race I take regular walk breaks.  Trail 50k-50M - I will walk the steep uphills and because aide stations are often much further apart and there is not someone handing out cups, I pause a few seconds to refill bottles.

       

      I do know that the tradition in trail running is to keep track of the time of a run and not the mileage. What about that?  Any running can be tracked by time or mileage.  I tend to track mileage, just knowing a tough technical hilly trail 6 MPH is a good pace. 

       

      The nutrition and cross training also seems to be quite different, as from what I heard ultra runners rely more on fat than on glycogen and many include full body workouts like cross-fit into their training schedules....  I do not think this varies that much from marathon runners to ultra-runners.  Most do some core, some do a bit of cross training, some do alot ~ but most serious runners (Marathon, ultra) do mostly running.  There is a larger number of runners using products that help metabolize fat and also adjust their diets to add more healthy fats.  But I think this is still the minority - Most are still carb munching.

       

      And last question: Is there any good book about ultra and trail running?  I know Scott Jurek is going to release one soon (Eat & Run) that I have already pre-ordered so that I guess that it could be a good start.  Not that I can recommend

       

      Any answer / suggestion will be greatly appreciated ♣ 

      http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

      2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

       


      Not A Runner

         

         

        And last question: Is there any good book about ultra and trail running? 

         

         

        People have said good things about Relentless Forward Progress.  

        I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart


        Spring- wishful thinking

          Hey people,

           

          I want to start with ultras / trail in a year or two, once I have enough base and done some achievements in 'normal' road running that I wanted to do (almost done, actually: Sub 3.30 marathon, close-to 40 10k and a sub 1:30 half marathon).  

           

           I was with you up to here, but I feel like you are over thinking what it takes to complete an ultra.  If you have done a few marathons, you can easily do a 50K (which is an ultra), and if you can do a few of those, you can finish a 50 miler.  I've seen people finish 50 milers training less than a lot of people train for marathons.  My point here is not that you shouldn't train properly and learn more about how to race one, but it is not something you need to decide years in advance.

           

          I did not really run any trails until my first 50 miler (except for one training run), but I knew I wanted to run Ice Age 50 because I had hiked the trails a few times.  For me running trails is a great way to enjoy the scenery.

          DoppleBock


            Of the ultras I have done - I have done them not to race but to experience them.  This is a mental state of being.  Even in 24 hour racing in short loops ~ I have tried to race 2 out of the 5 and both those times they ended badly.  The rest of the time I have just let the race flow and enjoyed the experience.  Once you get in the last 20% of the race that is the time to start thinking about racing if you want to think about it at all.

             

            Next up ~ There is no comparability in times of trail races.  Running a sub 4 hour 50k on one trail is easier than running a sub 5 hour on another.  Rarely will people ask you what you PRs are for 50 mile trail races or 50k trail races.  They may ask how fast you plan to run this particular race, but more often they want to know what races you have done and to talk about the experience.

             

            Ultra racing - Specially 50M and beyond is about problem solving.  Taking care of your body ~ Eating drinking sure, but how to deal with nausea, dizziness, the shits, blisters ... you need to understand your body more and take appropriate action to solve problems.  This becomes painfully obvious in 100 mile and beyond.  Things will always go wrong (Or at least not to plan) and how do you react to the problem will = finishing or not.

             

            Finally ultra-running is a lot less serious than marathons and shorter.  Sure the top couple people are serious.  Many of us have interupted our race to help someone else problem solve.  In a marathon most people look around to see if someone (Spectator) is near a fallen runner and let them take care of the problem - Ultra-running we will stop our race and check it out and help.  Although everyone wants to do well, 95%+ of ultra-runners are there for the experience.

             

            Generally ultra-running is a pretty big mindshift from road running.  In many ways, I would say you can experience a 50 mile trail race and enjoy it more and be more ready than to trying to run a marathon hard.

            http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

            2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

             


            Marquess of Utopia

              Of the ultras I have done - I have done them not to race but to experience them.  This is a mental state of being.  Even in 24 hour racing in short loops ~ I have tried to race 2 out of the 5 and both those times they ended badly.  The rest of the time I have just let the race flow and enjoyed the experience.  Once you get in the last 20% of the race that is the time to start thinking about racing if you want to think about it at all.

               

              Next up ~ There is no comparability in times of trail races.  Running a sub 4 hour 50k on one trail is easier than running a sub 5 hour on another.  Rarely will people ask you what you PRs are for 50 mile trail races or 50k trail races.  They may ask how fast you plan to run this particular race, but more often they want to know what races you have done and to talk about the experience.

               

              Ultra racing - Specially 50M and beyond is about problem solving.  Taking care of your body ~ Eating drinking sure, but how to deal with nausea, dizziness, the shits, blisters ... you need to understand your body more and take appropriate action to solve problems.  This becomes painfully obvious in 100 mile and beyond.  Things will always go wrong (Or at least not to plan) and how do you react to the problem will = finishing or not.

               

              Finally ultra-running is a lot less serious than marathons and shorter.  Sure the top couple people are serious.  Many of us have interupted our race to help someone else problem solve.  In a marathon most people look around to see if someone (Spectator) is near a fallen runner and let them take care of the problem - Ultra-running we will stop our race and check it out and help.  Although everyone wants to do well, 95%+ of ultra-runners are there for the experience.

               

              Generally ultra-running is a pretty big mindshift from road running.  In many ways, I would say you can experience a 50 mile trail race and enjoy it more and be more ready than to trying to run a marathon hard.

               

              Speaking of dealing with problems do you take Imodium AD before the race you wait until you have problems? In a marathon I will take it before, but in a race 6 hours or more I would think at least one BM would be healthy to release additional weight.


              Not A Runner

                Speaking of dealing with problems do you take Imodium AD before the race you wait until you have problems? In a marathon I will take it before, but in a race 6 hours or more I would think at least one BM would be healthy to release additional weight.

                 

                I still take it before.  It doesn't completely block you up.  If your body still needs to unload some waste it will happen.  It just prevents the trots.  (At least in my experience, which I was clearly happy to tell everyone about).

                I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                DoppleBock


                  I never thought of doing this ... It makes some sense ... I wonder if it has other adverse impact to hydration or digestive tract? 

                   

                  I still take it before.  It doesn't completely block you up.  If your body still needs to unload some waste it will happen.  It just prevents the trots.  (At least in my experience, which I was clearly happy to tell everyone about).

                  http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                  2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                   


                  Spring- wishful thinking

                    I never thought of doing this ... It makes some sense ... I wonder if it has other adverse impact to hydration or digestive tract? 

                     

                    I've thought about it but always been worried about the above.  I'm going to try this during my 35 mile run on IAT. 

                     

                    WG- you still in for IAT then beer/cheese?


                    Not A Runner

                       

                      WG- you still in for IAT then beer/cheese?

                       

                      Yup.  I will see you Sat.  I'm going to hopefully run 26.  All my running has been going well except for long runs.  That may present itself as a small problem for an ultrarunner.

                      I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart


                      Not A Runner

                        I never thought of doing this ... It makes some sense ... I wonder if it has other adverse impact to hydration or digestive tract? 

                         

                        Not in combination with Taco Bell the day before.  Wink

                        I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                        DoppleBock


                          I have started to come to like pizza the day before - Cheese seems to solid things up.

                          http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                          2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                           

                          DoppleBock


                            Not if you are patient - Slow and let the beer at the finish pull you in.

                             

                             

                            Yup.  I will see you Sat.  I'm going to hopefully run 26.  All my running has been going well except for long runs.  That may present itself as a small problem for an ultrarunner.

                            http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                            2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                             


                            Not A Runner

                              Now I'm kind of thinking I should do the full 35 of the training run.  I feel super unprepared for Ice Age.  It may turn into a real slogfest, but I think come race day I will feel better for having put a long run in.  Ugh.

                              I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart


                              Black-Toe-Nailed

                                OMG... 26 and 35 training runs!!!

                                --

                                "If one can stick to the training throughout the many long years,
                                then will power is no longer a problem. It's raining? That doesn't matter.
                                I am tired? That's besides the point. It's simply that I just have to."

                                Emil Zatopek

                                123