That would seem hypocritical since Boston is a net downhill course (450 ft drop) and is not record eligible. BQ criteria only require a certified distance, not that it be on a record eligible course. Keep in mind the historical origins of the BQ as well. It was to weed out people who were not adequately trained to run a marathon. If you can run a net downhill, or for that matter one with an assisting tailwind, you fit the demographic they were targeting. If we are discussing aided courses, then any point to point course that has an assisting tailwind the year one runs a BQ, would also be thrown into the mix.

All fine points but I still disagree with the conclusion. Courses that are a steady downhill like we are talking about are of course not the same as just anything "net downhill". And these courses are specifically designed to improve times - not the same as a point to point course where you might happen to get a tailwind that day. Or one where you happen to get nice cool weather, which is probably a bigger impact than anything. If they wanted to define a rule to exclude steady downhill courses, I'm sure they could come up with something. Although I'm not sure there's much incentive for them to do so.

Docket...That was quite the elevation chart yesterday. I think we have cracks in our sidewalk here that give more gain!

 

While marathon books are being discussed, I have to throw out Run Faster from the 5k to the Marathon by Hudson as the book that did the absolute most for me. To a large extent, I credit those innocuous little 10 second hill sprints as really being game changing in my experience..

Haha, I do too.  They precipitated a two year battle with my ATs that I'm still not 100% sure I have won.  That said, I'm a huge fan of his theories in general, and most of my better training cycles have been based on that book.

I went to spin class last night.  It was ugly AF.  Showered at the studio to get cleaned up for my next thing, and got a calf cramp trying to put my pants on.    It would seem my bike fitness is approximately zero, which makes sense, I haven't been on a bike since August 4, 2017.  Use it or lose it I guess.  Husband was snoring in my fucking ear all night, so I did not sleep, and was too tired and pissed off to run this morning.  Maybe tonight.  Probably not, but I can hope.

Nailed my workout this evening.  I was dreading it a little after my failrun last night, and I was tempted to just pedal my bike easy today since my legs till felt a little heavy.  I went ahead and attempted the workout though and nailed it, and was actually a little heavy on the power.   Followed the bike ride up with a 20 minute brick run (2.7 miles at 7:16 pace).  Almost 2.5 hours of training today. Good times.  Sorry to derail.

4.3 miles of something that was supposed to resemble running. It was 90+ and I'm still feeling a little beat up.

Another vote for Hudson. I skip the hill sprints. I did them the first time I followed his plan & didn't see any benefit. I also strength train, so I figure that gives me similar benefits.And yea, I find it helpful to read through the books cause I have to adapt stuff. I think most are geared towards much faster younger runners.

On the downhill subject, if someone does a north to south half on the NCR trail, I'm all over that. Although it is a 1% grade, so nothing like the the full with 5000 feet. There is a 20 miler that goes that direction, but, 20 miles. Nope.

 

I'll remember this when you PR the swim at Little Debbie.  

 

You guys sometimes spend pages debating the "best" marathons to run for temperature, training season, hills, all to optimize your potential time, no?  Why is how you pick a marathon any different than someone picking a net downhill for their best time?   If you run a perfectly flat course with a tailwind, minimal turns, and perfect temperatures, are we supposed to say "Tsk tsk that's not a real PR?"   As it is, we know one course time doesn't translate to another one anyway because of all those factors.   Really, it'd be silly to pick a course that is notoriously slow and difficult if you wanted to BQ.

 

Not to mention, if you want to, all those marathons are open to anyone who wants to run them.

There's a difference between picking a course that doesn't have factors that slow you down vs. picking an assisted course. Of course that's my opinion.

 

And the correct one.

So we can all agree flat courses are the best and fair, right?  RIGHT?  So, all of you must come down and run here...I mean, when it's one of the 40F days once in a blue moon.

Aside from when there is a freaking gale warning or heat, flat FTW.  I have somehow managed to have 1 nice day for the flat races I've done. 

 

Aside from when there is a freaking gale warning or heat, flat FTW.  I have somehow managed to have 1 nice day for the flat races I've done. 

It is ironic that both my HM PR and my marathon PR are from down here (Miami and Orlando) in Miami flat courses and both were in cold weather (Marathon was 42F and windy, the HM was in the 50s).  And I just ran a HM and almost PRd and it was 45F the whole race and it was in Miami.  Again, 10ft of elevation or something like that.  So, miracles do happen here!