FWIW, and I don't think there's anything wrong w/ what you're doing.......if somebody has a good coache's advice for working specifically on the last 10K, I think the rest of your run is awesome.

I can't see where any specific drills will change you first 20 miles.  I know the easy answer would be to up your mileage and that *might* be key, but perhaps there's a smarter way to address that last 10K without *assuming* the extra miles are necessary.  (i.e. smarter, not harder)

Remember......you don't want to visit this guy again......

Yeah there are way too many options. And as many people you will ask, you will get that many different opinions. I suppose any one of them would be better than nothing, just a question of picking something. I mainly used one for general schedule & structure of quality/speed workouts, because that was the thing I had no idea how to go about doing. I figured the rest of it is pretty much just logging miles.

That's a good way to look at it.  I was more interested in training ideals and philosophies than any particular structured plan. Or the why as I have come to refer to it.

I just want someone to tell me exactly what to run...

That would last all of one day with me. lol

I get it though, for all the similarities runners share we are inherently different in what we do and how we do it. No different than any other aspect of life really.

 

Yeah we are a bit different...I just want someone to tell me exactly what to run, I am not as curious why. Because I read that stuff & my eyes glaze over. We'll see where Baboon falls in that spectrum.

^ That's sort of me as well. Not interested in the why, I just want to be given an order of how and what to run, so that I can disobey. That's my big thrill in life.

FWIW, I think that Phil trained very much in the way that Pfitzinger would have done it. I don't think he'd have to change anything, really. Maybe slightly higher mileage (5-8 miles extra a week), and/or more experience/miles in the legs (another training cycle/race or two). That's all he needs, in my opinion. For the rest, he did all the right workouts.

 

And every one of them is the best.  The best, Jerry!

I like when you guys throw in the hidden Seinfeld references.

 

I've thought a lot about Pfitz but I understand he's not a big fan of racing during training.  Thinking ahead to my next cycle, there are at least two HM's, a 10K, and a 5K on my radar prior to the marathon.

I will say from my understanding that Pfitz is much more amenable to building in races than Hansons anyway. Hansons outright discourages it, although obviously in the end you can do whatever the hell you want.

 

Yeah we are a bit different...I just want someone to tell me exactly what to run, I am not as curious why. Because I read that stuff & my eyes glaze over. We'll see where Baboon falls in that spectrum.

+1

I have always wanted to try Pfitz.  But I always find a reason not to.  First I thought the 18/55 plan was too hard.  Then I thought it wasn't enough but the 18/70 plan was too hard.  Now I think I wouldn't like doing those MLR's in the middle of the week.  14-15 at easy pace? Plus a LSD on Sunday. Blech.

I picked Hansons over Pfitz for pretty stupid reasons.

(1) I did not think I would want to wake up early enough to do 15 miles in the morning before work for midweek MLRs. Although as it turned out I did routinely up to 14 with Hansons tempos including wu/cd.

(2) I did not really want to do doubles. The reasons for this one were even dumber. One is my wife would think I'm crazier than she already does - all the running I do is not enough, now some days I have to run twice? The other is the extra laundry.

Actually I did read a lot of threads here with people stating pros & cons of each. And the thing that stuck with me most was the benefit of a high % of miles at MP or faster. Which Hansons apparently has more of, although I did not compare them directly to verify this.

Anyway, I'm sure anyone would do well with either.