Beginners and Beyond

Integrity vs. Outcome Goals (Read 127 times)


Hip Redux

    Interesting read in time for the onslaught of "resolutions":  Integrity in the New Year

     

    Excerpt:

     

    People who sign up for marathons rarely want to run a marathon. Marathons suck. They hurt and yet are so easy that anyone can sign up for one. I crossed the finish line of my first marathon with a 65 year old woman who had run another marathon the previous week. People don’t want to run a marathon, they want to be the kind of person who ran a marathon. And most people don’t want to have a six pack, they want to be the kind of person who they think has a six pack. A person who is dedicated, focused, good, clean, disciplined, motivated, and a hard-worker but who doesn’t need to brag about it because everyone can see they have a six pack. But just FYI, you can be a terrible, flaky, lazy person who has bourbon and fruit loops for breakfast every morning and still have a six pack if you’ve got the genes for it.

     

    By making a marathon or a six pack our goal, we are lying to ourselves because it feels like a plan. We feel good because we have focused on something and resolved to do it, but as Smith and Locke (1998) learned in their experiments, “more total time spent planning was associated with high performance when planning quality was high but with low performance when planning quality was low” (pg 118). And goal setting, even process goal setting, is functionally useless in a vacuum. In fact, Erez (1977) showed that goal setting without feedback is worse for performance than feedback with no goal setting at all.

     

    When I am working with people, I ask them hard questions not only to find out what external goals they want to achieve (marathons, fat loss, etc.) but I also ask them hard questions to find out what kind of person they want to be. I want to know what my clients values are because while people might not want the same things every day, values never change. That way, my clients can get feedback on how they are doing every day and how they are living up to their own standards while their goals can change to keep them moving forward. Do you want to be the kind of person who runs a marathon? What does that mean? What are the qualities of a marathoner? What are the kinds of things marathoner does every day? What are the habits of a marathoner? By knowing the answers to these types of questions, you can make a better plan and a more flexible plan to keep you moving forward, even if change your mind and don’t want to run a marathon anymore.

     

    LRB


      I have not read the article yet but my desire to run marathons has more to do with the sport of running, and the progression of a group of race distances that appeal to me  (mile, 5k, 10k, half marathon, marathon), than a resolution.

       

      If however, someone resolved to run a marathon, more power to them.

       

      As far as the marathon hurting, there is a level of pain associated with any race distance.  Or, as we used to say back at the old place; if your race ain't hurtin', you ain't working.


      Hip Redux

        I think he used the marathon as a goal just as an example - a fitting one for us, of course - but his point I think is that it's not the act of doing the marathon that people like - it's the feeling of success or accomplishment (or whatever personally drives you).    And he goes on to then say basically if you look at the "why" behind that desire, you might find other things that also get you to your goal - if you get injured, for example.  All is not lost if you get derailed from the outcome, when you focus on the reasons for what drives you.

         

        LRB


          All is not lost if you get derailed from the outcome, when you focus on the reasons for what drives you.

           

          Yes, that goes to the saying that the journey is as important or more than the destination.

          Docket_Rocket


          Former Bad Ass

            I love marathons and I don't think they suck.  But, I obviously don't run them to the best of my capacity since I just ran 12 last year.  And yes, I agree with him that the journey is most of the time better than the destination.  Without marathon training, I wouldn't run at all.

            Damaris


            Mmmmm...beer

              I think any distance can suck if you're unprepared, the marathon is no exception.  Any distance can suck even if you are prepared, if you're racing it hard, that's just the nature of racing.  My impromptu marathon last winter didn't suck, my 50k last weekend didn't suck, but I was prepared for both, at the pace that I ran them.  I fully expect my marathon in March to have a fair amount of suckage, but it will be because I am pushing myself hard, not because I'm unprepared.

               

              I see the point he's making, like LRB said, it's the journey, not the destination.  But I think it's ok for it to be about the destination as well.  My overall goals are to stay healthy and get more fit.  But within that overall goal are destination goals, like my upcoming marathon.  Another goal I have is, in fact, to have a six pack.  Part of it it is because it will be a byproduct of losing more bodyfat, which will help make me a better runner.  Part of it is pure, unadulterated vanity.  Being a former 270lb couch potato who has already achieved a level of fitness I never even dreamed was possible, I want to see how far I can go.  I have never in my life had visible abs, not even as a kid, so I want to see if I have the discipline to get there.

               

              I do agree tho, especially with running, that if you get injured, you have to look at the bigger picture and either dedicate yourself to recovery, or find other ways to stay healthy and fit.

              -Dave

              My running blog

              Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-3 marathon 2:56:46!!

              Love the Half


                I'll stick with the running theme.  Why do you run?  If it's just for PR's, then you have 7-10 years and you'll quit.  You'll have to quit because all your PR's will be in the rear view mirror as age takes its inevitable toll.  If it's just for a goal race, then you'll quit if you get hurt before the race and you'll quit if you run the race but, either way, you'll quit.  The common theme there is that if the only reason you run is for a particular goal, you have no reason to continue once you reach the goal.

                 

                However, if you can make the goal subordinate to something else, then you'll keep at it whether you reach your goal or not.  I have a couple of goals next year.  I'd like to run a 5K in under 18 minutes.  I'd like to run 3,000 miles.  I may achieve both.  I may achieve neither.  Regardless, I'll keep running because those goals are subordinate to my larger objective of being healthy.  That's what really matters because one day, in the not too distant future, all my PR's will be behind me and I may not be able to run 3,000 miles in a year.  That's OK because I can still get out there and I can still run for my health.

                Short term goal: 17:59 5K

                Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

                Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

                Docket_Rocket


                Former Bad Ass

                  I'll stick with the running theme.  Why do you run?  If it's just for PR's, then you have 7-10 years and you'll quit.  You'll have to quit because all your PR's will be in the rear view mirror as age takes its inevitable toll.  If it's just for a goal race, then you'll quit if you get hurt before the race and you'll quit if you run the race but, either way, you'll quit.  The common theme there is that if the only reason you run is for a particular goal, you have no reason to continue once you reach the goal.

                   

                  However, if you can make the goal subordinate to something else, then you'll keep at it whether you reach your goal or not.  I have a couple of goals next year.  I'd like to run a 5K in under 18 minutes.  I'd like to run 3,000 miles.  I may achieve both.  I may achieve neither.  Regardless, I'll keep running because those goals are subordinate to my larger objective of being healthy.  That's what really matters because one day, in the not too distant future, all my PR's will be behind me and I may not be able to run 3,000 miles in a year.  That's OK because I can still get out there and I can still run for my health.

                   

                  This.  I have too many illnesses and issues to concentrate only on PRs, so  concentrate on this.  I'll keep running marathons even if I never PR again.  They keep me healthy and sane.

                  Damaris

                  kristin10185


                  Skirt Runner

                    I don't want to be the kind of person who runs marathons and has a six pack I actually WANT to run marathons (well halfs for now....marathons eventually) and to have a six pack lol. I actually enjoy training for and running races. And I don't think I necessarily have any of those qualities I just....like running. And excuses to wear Sparkle Skirts. Lol

                    PRs:   5K- 28:16 (5/5/13)      10K- 1:00:13 (10/27/13)    4M- 41:43 (9/7/13)   15K- 1:34:25  (8/17/13)    10M- 1:56:30 (4/6/14)     HM- 2:20:16 (4/13/14)     Full- 5:55:33 (11/1/15)

                     

                    I started a blog about running :) Check it out if you care to

                    happylily


                      It all sounds like pop psychology to me. This guy knows nothing about me and my motivations. And I'm not sure he knows much about marathons (or running) either. Why do so many people feel that they just HAVE to write something?

                      PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                              Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                      18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                      happylily


                        Coach Stevo? LOL... And he sells merchandise with his name on it? Pleeease... 

                        PRs: Boston Marathon, 3:27, April 15th 2013

                                Cornwall Half-Marathon, 1:35, April 27th 2013

                        18 marathons, 18 BQs since 2010

                          Coach Stevo? LOL... And he sells merchandise with his name on it? Pleeease... 

                           

                          Including underwear!! Hahaha, now that is pretty funny...

                          PRs: 5K: 21:25, 10K: 44:05, HM: 1:38:23* (downhill), M: 3:32:09

                            Love the "Rack Position" t-shirt too! Ha.

                            PRs: 5K: 21:25, 10K: 44:05, HM: 1:38:23* (downhill), M: 3:32:09

                            Love the Half


                               

                              This.  I have too many illnesses and issues to concentrate only on PRs, so  concentrate on this.  I'll keep running marathons even if I never PR again.  They keep me healthy and sane.

                               

                              What if you can't run marathons?

                              Short term goal: 17:59 5K

                              Mid term goal:  2:54:59 marathon

                              Long term goal: To say I've been a runner half my life.  (I started running at age 45).

                              Nevrgivup


                                I run because I love to run. Having goals is part of the sport. Some runners never run a marathon. Personally, the only reason why I'm going to run a marathon in April is because of the cause. If I had not gotten into Boston via invite, I would not be training for a marathon. Who knows? I may not make it to the starting line due to what is going on injury wise, but I haven't given up on the idea just yet.

                                 

                                Hell, if I was told I could never run more than 3 miles, I would still run because I love it that much and its healthy for me.

                                Running is my mental-Ctrl-Alt-Del.