2018 Chicago Marathon (Read 270 times)

JMac11


Benevolent Leader

    BR - You don't need to set up mile markers. You just need to avoid looking at your watch while running, and have it beep when you've hit 1 mile. Then you can check what you ran for that lap. I don't know what watch you have, but with my Garmin 230, I just put the watch to auto-lap at 1 mile and then change the screen so I can't even tell what pace I'm running. I run all of my workouts this way so that I'm not checking my pace every minute.

     

    JD's 2Q plan gives you so many opportunities to run long segments at marathon pace. I also think you should focus on learning what threshold pace feels like without a watch. These techniques of learning to run by feel (with the aid of a watch by the side) can especially help you during the summer, since you're not addicted to running a given pace. If you have a better sense of what M or T pace feels like, you won't panic when it comes in 20 seconds slower during a hot day.

    5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (11/19) 

     

    Next Race: TBD

    Arvind Balaraman


      I am in Corral C. Shooting for a time between 3:15 and 3:20. Will start with the 3:20 pacer and will try to speed up after 20 miles is my plan.

      Brewing Runner


      CIM FanBoi

        Jmac Garmin 235. I'll give the "run without looking" a shot for some marathon paced miles. Good idea. I'll could remove the pace from the watch screen since it pops up each mile because I also use auto-lap. I check workout paces so I don't run too hard but again I guess I could just learn for the next two months how it feels more. Threshold pace sucks. It doesn't seem to matter how far I'm running T miles. Usually they suck for at least half the distance. I also focus on heart rate when it starts getting 90+ for my runs.

        1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

        5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

        10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

        Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

        Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

        Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

        *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

         

        2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon. 

         

        JMac11


        Benevolent Leader

          Jmac Garmin 235. I'll give the "run without looking" a shot for some marathon paced miles. Good idea. I'll could remove the pace from the watch screen since it pops up each mile because I also use auto-lap. I check workout paces so I don't run too hard but again I guess I could just learn for the next two months how it feels more. Threshold pace sucks. It doesn't seem to matter how far I'm running T miles. Usually they suck for at least half the distance. I also focus on heart rate when it starts getting 90+ for my runs.

           

          That's exactly right, that's how I do it. It'll automatically pop up and that's the feedback I use. Marathon is the best time to do it because you can recover from a mile that is 15 seconds too fast. Running a T mile 15 seconds too fast can make it painful during the second (or third) mile.

          5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (11/19) 

           

          Next Race: TBD

          Brewing Runner


          CIM FanBoi

            jmac I tried this on Friday and failed miserably. I was aiming for an 8:30 (E) pace and I went sub 8 for every single mile. It was possibly due to having not run due to weather last week so the legs were fresh. Are you adjusting your T or M paced training runs due to the heat? It appears your weather is in the 90s with higher humidity while I'm in the 100s (this week) with lower humidity. I'm planning on doing the Q workout this week on a treadmill (4x2T) because the weather, and the air quality, are going to be horrible. I wouldn't run 15 miles in 100F let alone doing speed workouts.

            1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

            5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

            10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

            Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

            Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

            Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

            *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

             

            2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon. 

             

            JMac11


            Benevolent Leader

              jmac I tried this on Friday and failed miserably. I was aiming for an 8:30 (E) pace and I went sub 8 for every single mile. It was possibly due to having not run due to weather last week so the legs were fresh. Are you adjusting your T or M paced training runs due to the heat? It appears your weather is in the 90s with higher humidity while I'm in the 100s (this week) with lower humidity.

               

              My lord yes am I adjusting for heat. That's exactly why I run by feel! I actually find easy runs the most easy (no pun intended) to adjust to heat. All of my runs the past week in the evening have been 85 with 70 degree dew points. I've been running them at about 7:45 pace. I saw a brief respite in weather a few weeks ago when I ran in upper 60's and dew points in the 40's. My easy pace gradually got down to 7:00 by the end of the run.

               

              I would say a few things:

               

              - If you can't control yourself without a watch, keep practicing on easy runs. However, the fact that you didn't run last week definitely can lead to fresher legs. My easy pace is a good 30 seconds faster during the beginning of base building for example than it is during marathon training

              - If you still can't control yourself, use this handy chart to adjust your pace. It's pretty close for me. Just sum up your temperature and dew point to get the adjustment needed. My TDP was 155 (85 temp and 70 DP) and I was definitely around 4-5% slower than usual. Note that they recommend you cut these pace adjustments in half if you're doing intervals, e.g. 3x2T, as the walking cools you down.

               

              100 or less:   no pace adjustment

              101 to 110:   0% to 0.5% pace adjustment

              111 to 120:   0.5% to 1.0% pace adjustment

              121 to 130:   1.0% to 2.0% pace adjustment

              131 to 140:   2.0% to 3.0% pace adjustment

              141 to 150:   3.0% to 4.5% pace adjustment

              151 to 160:   4.5% to 6.0% pace adjustment

              161 to 170:   6.0% to 8.0% pace adjustment

              171 to 180:   8.0% to 10.0% pace adjustment

              Above 180:   hard running not recommended

              5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (11/19) 

               

              Next Race: TBD

              Brewing Runner


              CIM FanBoi

                My dew point is about 40. Living in the desert has ups and downs. Apparently my morning easy runs are in the 60s with a dew point of 40 with 40% humidity.

                So today's TDP is about 130 so I'd have to do my workout at 2% slower. That doesn't seem like a lot. Using the Runners Connect calculator (If I'm doing this right) puts the 2 miles in 14 minutes at Tempo pace an 8:24 (16:48 total) pace.

                I've never understood how to calculate a slower pace based on percentage. My way is convert to seconds, add 2% convert back to pace. For simple mant a 7:00 pace becomes 7:08 pace (my T runs are 6:50-7:00 currently). So I should pretty much be doing my T intervals tonight outside about 10 seconds slower? It doesn't seem much slower for running in 100 degrees. Especially when the fast part is almost 10K pace.

                Using the Jack Daniels spreadsheet in the 1:30 hm thread, and a 10K race, it says 100F is about 30 seconds slower than the 60F I ran the race in. The race is just about my T pace at 70F.

                1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                 

                2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon. 

                 

                JMac11


                Benevolent Leader

                  There are a lot of variables that go into heat adjustments. One important one is whether you are acclimated or not. Given we're deep into the summer, I would assume you are. I'll have to say though, as someone who has run in dry 90 degree heat vs humid 80, I would take dry 90 any day of the week. That's the problem with any of these heat adjustment calculators. They think running in 90 with dew points in the 40 is worse than 80 with dew point at 75. It's not even close.

                   

                  The other important variable is distance. You can get away with running a 5K in 80 degree heat. Wouldn't run a PR, but it's doable. You definitely cannot run a marathon in 80 degree heat without serious issues.

                   

                  Another one is the sun. 90 degrees at noon on an open highway is WAY worse than 90 degrees at 8 PM after the sun has set.

                   

                  Finally, I'd say wind. I enjoy running more in evenings than mornings because the wind picks up in the afternoon. I'll take 85 with a 10 mph breeze vs 75 with zero breeze.

                   

                  Given all of that, if you're running your T runs in the morning, 30 seconds is probably too much in a dry climate. I could see that though if you're running at 100 in the morning (but that must be pretty rare right?) If you're running at 70 degrees in the morning with 40 degree point, I would consider that near ideal conditions.

                  5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (11/19) 

                   

                  Next Race: TBD

                  Fredford66


                  Running Musician

                    On the topic of heat and humidity, given a dew point of 70, would you rather be on a long run with a temperature of 74 where the relative humidity is so high that almost no sweat will evaporate, or at 84, where it's hotter, but the air has more ability to absorb moisture so you'll get a little more cooling from being wet?  Assume for this purpose it's an overcast day so sunshine doesn't play a role.  I lean towards the cooler temp, but am not sure.

                    5k 24:03 (1/19); 5M 40:50 (11/19); 10k 52:27 (3/19); Half 1:56:33 (10/19)

                    Upcoming race(s): Westfield Hangover 5k 1/1; Watchung 10k Trail 1/4
                    LedLincoln


                      On the topic of heat and humidity, given a dew point of 70, would you rather be on a long run with a temperature of 74 where the relative humidity is so high that almost no sweat will evaporate, or at 84, where it's hotter, but the air has more ability to absorb moisture so you'll get a little more cooling from being wet?  Assume for this purpose it's an overcast day so sunshine doesn't play a role.  I lean towards the cooler temp, but am not sure.

                       

                      They give you that choice at Chicago??

                      Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits.
                      - Mark Twain

                        How about run easy miles easy and tempo miles comfortably hard and ignore the watch unless it's a crisp 55-60 degree fall day? You will adjust based on the weather. You can look back at the numbers when you are done and see how it turned out. It's a lot less complicated and you will end up in the same place.

                        Fredford66


                        Running Musician

                           

                          They give you that choice at Chicago??

                           

                          You didn't see that option on your registration form?

                          5k 24:03 (1/19); 5M 40:50 (11/19); 10k 52:27 (3/19); Half 1:56:33 (10/19)

                          Upcoming race(s): Westfield Hangover 5k 1/1; Watchung 10k Trail 1/4
                          JMac11


                          Benevolent Leader

                            How about run easy miles easy and tempo miles comfortably hard and ignore the watch unless it's a crisp 55-60 degree fall day? You will adjust based on the weather. You can look back at the numbers when you are done and see how it turned out. It's a lot less complicated and you will end up in the same place.

                             

                            Yeah this is sort of what I was advocating earlier, that you need to learn what easy and tempo feel like so that your body just adjusts for it. I know what easy feels like, and it can vary by over 60 seconds depending on so many factors beyond just temp.

                            5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (11/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: TBD

                            Brewing Runner


                            CIM FanBoi

                              There are a lot of variables that go into heat adjustments. One important one is whether you are acclimated or not. Given we're deep into the summer, I would assume you are. I'll have to say though, as someone who has run in dry 90 degree heat vs humid 80, I would take dry 90 any day of the week. That's the problem with any of these heat adjustment calculators. They think running in 90 with dew points in the 40 is worse than 80 with dew point at 75. It's not even close.

                               

                              The other important variable is distance. You can get away with running a 5K in 80 degree heat. Wouldn't run a PR, but it's doable. You definitely cannot run a marathon in 80 degree heat without serious issues.

                               

                              Another one is the sun. 90 degrees at noon on an open highway is WAY worse than 90 degrees at 8 PM after the sun has set.

                               

                              Finally, I'd say wind. I enjoy running more in evenings than mornings because the wind picks up in the afternoon. I'll take 85 with a 10 mph breeze vs 75 with zero breeze.

                               

                              Given all of that, if you're running your T runs in the morning, 30 seconds is probably too much in a dry climate. I could see that though if you're running at 100 in the morning (but that must be pretty rare right?) If you're running at 70 degrees in the morning with 40 degree point, I would consider that near ideal conditions.

                               

                              I WISH I could do workouts in the morning. It would almost match Chicago weather except for being dark. The JD workouts just take too long for me to get them in. Mornings are much better but I either have to do them on a treadmill (74 inside, boring) or outside this week (98+F, 5-10 mph wind). Previously it was 85-90 and 15-20+ mph winds.  Since the workouts are 14+ miles it's about a 2 hour workout. I won't even mention the smoke in the air from California fires.

                              1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                              5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                              10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                              Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                              Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                              Annual Miles 1,892.7 miles

                              *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                               

                              2019 Goal: Get into the 4/19/21 marathon. 

                               

                                 

                                I WISH I could do workouts in the morning. It would almost match Chicago weather except for being dark. The JD workouts just take too long for me to get them in. Mornings are much better but I either have to do them on a treadmill (74 inside, boring) or outside this week (98+F, 5-10 mph wind). Previously it was 85-90 and 15-20+ mph winds.  Since the workouts are 14+ miles it's about a 2 hour workout. I won't even mention the smoke in the air from California fires.

                                 

                                Last year I remember passing a building around mile 22-23 that said 79 degrees. I don't think it was really quite that high or maybe I just couldn't believe that I was feeling so great at that point but the race last year went very well for me with a negative split second half. I don't know for sure but I think all of the 90-95+ degree workouts probably had something to do with not crashing. Train in the heat. You may need it! Unless smoke, then not.