finally a defeat for urban fast "food" industry (Read 1459 times)

    Sorry, but I've seen a lot of poor neighborhoods and none of them was 45 minutes from a grocery store. Also, I've never seen a situation where healthy food at the grocery store cost more than fast food. Maybe "health food" costs more at a specialty store, but veggies, dry pasta, and canned goods are always cheaper than eating out. Getting fat eating junk food is a choice. Even if your statement is accurate these folks could order a salad. Doesn't anyone believe in personal responsibility anymore?
    There is a lot of research on this. Many bad neighborhoods are a good distance from a store especially if you are lacking a car and depend on public transportation. In Oakland they started a co-op grocery store in one area a because they could not attract a grocery store and the liquor stores were serving as grocery store stocking junk food and old veggies. The example michael polland used was with a dollar you could eat 1200 calories of chips, or 250 calories of carrots. Yes pasta is cheap so is rice which are both horrible for blood sugar is metabolic resistant populations (many urban poor have even higher rates of diabetes btw). But veggies and good meat are all expensive. Try living on pasta and cheap dressing and see how healthy you feel. When you are poor you put your money were the cheapest energy is. Veggies disappear and you end up with junk food, processed food, pasta, flour and cheap ground beef. Yeah you could spend a dollar on canned or dry beans but you get a lot more calories per dollar with cheap processed food.
    You may find my running Vlog at Run Cast TV and my running log here
      Have you looked at the price of salad? You are right to some extent but there is a lot of really cheap junk. It takes a fair bit of time and effort to eat healthily and a LOT more to do so cheaply. Dont forget perceived value. McDonalds locally - For $4.69 you could get a grilled chicken salad or you could get a double cheeseburger, fries, large coke, and 2 apple pies. (and change) In the grocery for $1.69 1 head lettuce or 3 boxes Kraft Mac n Cheese (6 on special) or 10 packages top ramen.
      Thank you! In addition look at the calorie values. When you are poor, you could eat that salad for 4.69 and maybe what 400 calories and need to buy more food in two hours or eat a couple thousand calorie junk food meal and make it till dinner. I am not saying personal choice has nothing to do with it but as a single mom with two kids struggling to buy healthy food for my family I can see how if I has a couple hundred less a month I would be reduced to much fewer options, and I'm not even in a poor urban neighborhood with transportation and access issues.
      You may find my running Vlog at Run Cast TV and my running log here


      My legs are killing me

        So why do you think certain segments of society endemically make bad choices?
        Lack of education and laziness. It's hard work, trying to be, or staying healthy. For most people (poor, middle class or weathly) excercising or eating right is a lot of work and it takes a supreme effort.
        celiacChris


        3Days4Cure

          Thank you! In addition look at the calorie values. When you are poor, you could eat that salad for 4.69 and maybe what 400 calories and need to buy more food in two hours or eat a couple thousand calorie junk food meal and make it till dinner. I am not saying personal choice has nothing to do with it but as a single mom with two kids struggling to buy healthy food for my family I can see how if I has a couple hundred less a month I would be reduced to much fewer options, and I'm not even in a poor urban neighborhood with transportation and access issues.
          Speaking from experience, that is EXACTLY the decision people on tighter budgets face. While getting my MBA, I was on a very small stipend and the food budget was the first to go. In order to make my calorie requirements the diet shifted from salads and healthy meals to potato chip sandwiches (a loaf of bread, mustard and bag of chips <$10 and you get several meals out of that), kraft mac n cheese, pasturized processed cheese food and fast food (dolllar menu picks can pack a calorie punch). no coincidence i gained 50 pounds in my 3 years of graduate school. i've once again tightened my budget (expecting a 30% paycut this year--gotta love working in finance) and know that fresh freggies and good quality meats are 80% of the budget. i've slid down a level in leanness/quality of meat, but at least i'm avoiding the chips this time. and="" you="" get="" several="" meals="" out="" of="" that),="" kraft="" mac="" n="" cheese,="" pasturized="" processed="" cheese="" food="" and="" fast="" food="" (dolllar="" menu="" picks="" can="" pack="" a="" calorie="" punch).="" no="" coincidence="" i="" gained="" 50="" pounds="" in="" my="" 3="" years="" of="" graduate="" school.="" i've="" once="" again="" tightened="" my="" budget="" (expecting="" a="" 30%="" paycut="" this="" year--gotta="" love="" working="" in="" finance)="" and="" know="" that="" fresh="" freggies="" and="" good="" quality="" meats="" are="" 80%="" of="" the="" budget.="" i've="" slid="" down="" a="" level="" in="" leanness/quality="" of="" meat,="" but="" at="" least="" i'm="" avoiding="" the="" chips="" this=""></$10 and you get several meals out of that), kraft mac n cheese, pasturized processed cheese food and fast food (dolllar menu picks can pack a calorie punch). no coincidence i gained 50 pounds in my 3 years of graduate school. i've once again tightened my budget (expecting a 30% paycut this year--gotta love working in finance) and know that fresh freggies and good quality meats are 80% of the budget. i've slid down a level in leanness/quality of meat, but at least i'm avoiding the chips this time.>

          Chris
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          Why is it sideways?

            Doesn't anyone believe in personal responsibility anymore?
            The story is about taking personal responsibility. They didn't want McD's in their neighborhood and they took up the responsibility of working to make sure they didn't open their branch. ?
              Good arguements, every one. Lively, friendly discussion. Just one thing... Are we really talking about poor people getting fat? Doesn't anyone else find the irony in this? Poor folks are not forced to eat anything. I've been there. I lived on ramen noodles and hot dogs for a while. When my wife and I first married, I made a whopping $12,000 per year. We still managed to bring food home, cook it, and eat a somewhat balanced diet. It's a matter of discipline and choice. I don't hold anyone's choices against them, but I don't buy anyone being forced to eat at McDonald's. Too many studies of human behavior take out the element of individual choice. They begin with the supposition that people don't choose anything, and work from there. Why is diabetes becoming epidemic in some populations? I don't know precisely, but it isn't transmitted by mosquitos. Some people choose poorly, without being forced into it.
              Do bears bear? Do bees be?


              Why is it sideways?

                What you say is true, Ajax. It is important to acknowledge and to affirm people's abilities to make choices. Often we look at poorer communities as victims, unable to make choices, which strips them of their dignity in a worse fashion than McD's ever could. We should avoid this habit. But why don't you belienve that a community organizing against what they see as a blight on their community is an example of just the sort of choice-making that we ought to affirm? It takes discipline and organization to do what's best for your community. And these folks thought it best not to have another fast food joint close by. Not only did they think that, they got off their butts and made it happen. That's the American way, no? You might say that the effect of this is to limit choice, and that's why it's a bad decision. But I imagine that an argument can be made that by disallowing the McD's, they are trying to open up their small neighborhhod to different sorts of choices.


                My legs are killing me

                  I didn't read anything in that article to indicate that the majority of the population in that community was against Churches Chicken from opening that restaurant. As with most protests, they are organized by a handful of people to put either political or public relation pressure to affect the outcome they want. Unless someone is shoving a piece of fried chicken down someone's throat, I have no problem with Churches opening a restaurant (a legal enterprize) anywhere it is lawfully zoned. I would propose that the organizers of this protest put their effort into creating a more healthy choice for the residents so they may exercise their free will in choosing what THEY want to eat. I'm very uncomfortable with people limiting free (legal) will and it comes across as elitist.
                    But why don't you belienve that a community organizing against what they see as a blight on their community is an example of just the sort of choice-making that we ought to affirm? It takes discipline and organization to do what's best for your community. And these folks thought it best not to have another fast food joint close by. Not only did they think that, they got off their butts and made it happen. That's the American way, no? You might say that the effect of this is to limit choice, and that's why it's a bad decision. But I imagine that an argument can be made that by disallowing the McD's, they are trying to open up their small neighborhhod to different sorts of choices.
                    Thanks Jeff. I should have acknowledged your arguement earlier. I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said. Of course, the community has the right, maybe even the obligation, to police itself and build the kind of place where people can live and make healthy choices. I hope all my ranting about personal choice didn't sound like I wanted McDonald's to be the only place where a person might eat. In fact, I mourn the loss of the corner grocery stores so common 30 years ago. It was easy to walk a few blocks and come home with something good. I suspect the answer here for most communities will be a combination of education, role modeling, law enforcement, and small business policy. For the record, I strongly support the use of small business incentives to help folks in poor neighborhoods maintain their local economies. Even here in Albuquerque, we have areas where a sense of community ownership would solve a lot of crime and poverty problems. The trick is finding the folks who can make it happen.
                    Do bears bear? Do bees be?


                    Why is it sideways?

                      For the record, I strongly support the use of small business incentives to help folks in poor neighborhoods maintain their local economies. Even here in Albuquerque, we have areas where a sense of community ownership would solve a lot of crime and poverty problems. The trick is finding the folks who can make it happen.
                      Sweet. Yes. Aligning community interests with business interests instead of pitting them into opposition with the other seems to me to be the trick. After all, business-folk live in communities, too. And business is just what communities do. Sully, as you know: society moves according to the will of those who are willing to speak up and act, not according to the will of the majority. This is a good thing, no?


                      My legs are killing me

                        Sully, as you know: society moves according to the will of those who are willing to speak up and act, not according to the will of the majority. This is a good thing, no?
                        No it is not.


                        Why is it sideways?

                          No it is not.
                          Explain, please. I don't know how you know what the "will of the majority" is if it is not expressed by a majority of folks speaking and acting and doing. MTA: to make myself clear. The will of the majority is a fictitous construct unless is is actually, empirically expressed as what the majority of folks are doing, wanting, saying. In this case, the sum total of action in the community ended up being in opposition to McD's. I interpret this as "the will of the majority." But there are certainly cases when the will of the majority acts against democratic ends. Fascist Germany, for example.


                          My legs are killing me

                            Explain, please. I don't know how you know what the "will of the majority" is if it is not expressed by a majority of folks speaking and acting and doing. MTA: to make myself clear. The will of the majority is a fictitous construct unless is is actually, empirically expressed as what the majority of folks are doing, wanting, saying. In this case, the sum total of action in the community ended up being in opposition to McD's. I interpret this as "the will of the majority." But there are certainly cases when the will of the majority acts against democratic ends. Fascist Germany, for example.
                            There are a host of issues that the majority of the population is in favor of, immigration reform, a simpler tax code, energy indepenence to name a few, which will never be effectively addressed because of lobbyist and a minority of well funded, both conservative and liberal, groups that block passage of any true and meaningful reform.


                            Why is it sideways?

                              There are a host of issues that the majority of the population is in favor of, immigration reform, a simpler tax code, energy indepenence to name a few, which will never be effectively addressed because of lobbyist and a minority of well funded, both conservative and liberal, groups that block passage of any true and meaningful reform.
                              That's right. And that's because the constitution is carefully constructed to allow the expression of minority interests because the founders feared the tyranny of the majority.


                              My legs are killing me

                                That's right. And that's because the constitution is carefully constructed to allow the expression of minority interests because the founders feared the tyranny of the majority.
                                The next time I'm in Nashville I'm going to take you for a couple of beers and some chicken wings and we'll put our heads together and solve the problems of the world. Somewhere in the middle is the solution and I enjoy our "battles".